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In this episode, forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias, alongside his wife Lauren Matthias, examines the case of Marcia Norman and her alleged perpetrator Jeffrey Zizz's background, criminal history, behaviors, and the warning signs investigators say were present long before Marcia's murder. Understanding who Jeffrey Zizz is—and how someone allegedly capable of such violence was able to gain the trust of vulnerable people—is essential to understanding this case.
This episode originally premiered on May 18, 2025, but as the case against Jeffrey Zizz moves closer to trial, it feels more important than ever to revisit. Marcia Norman deserved to grow old surrounded by her family, grandchildren, friends, and the life she built. Instead, prosecutors allege she was targeted by a man she trusted. As questions continue about justice, accountability, and what comes next, we believe Marcia's story deserves to remain in the public eye.

Sponsors: 
Q30: For a FREE Q-Collar sleeve with your Q-Collar purchase, head to ⁠https://Q30.com/HIDDEN⁠ and use code HIDDEN.
ASPCA Pet Insurance: Explore coverage at ⁠https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN⁠ 

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join 
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes. 
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

Before Nancy Guthrie, There Was Marcia Norman | A Psychological Deep Dive
Nancy Guthrie Viewers Need to Hear Marcia Norman’s Story | A Psychological Deep Dive
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In this episode, forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias, alongside his wife Lauren Matthias, examines the case of Marcia Norman and her alleged perpetrator Jeffrey Zizz's background, criminal history, behaviors, and the warning signs investigators say were present long before Marcia's murder. Understanding who Jeffrey Zizz is—and how someone allegedly capable of such violence was able to gain the trust of vulnerable people—is essential to understanding this case.
This episode originally premiered on May 18, 2025, but as the case against Jeffrey Zizz moves closer to trial, it feels more important than ever to revisit. Marcia Norman deserved to grow old surrounded by her family, grandchildren, friends, and the life she built. Instead, prosecutors allege she was targeted by a man she trusted. As questions continue about justice, accountability, and what comes next, we believe Marcia's story deserves to remain in the public eye.

Sponsors:
Q30: For a FREE Q-Collar sleeve with your Q-Collar purchase, head to ⁠https://Q30.com/HIDDEN⁠ and use code HIDDEN.
ASPCA Pet Insurance: Explore coverage at ⁠https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN⁠

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes.
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

Before Nancy Guthrie, There Was Marcia Norman | A Psychological Deep Dive
Nancy Guthrie Viewers Need to Hear Marcia Norman’s Story | A Psychological Deep Dive
marcia norman,marcia norman washington,jeffrey zizz,jeffrey zizz interrogation,hidden true crime,psychologist reacts,nancy guthrie psychologist,nancy guthrie,nancy guthrie update today,marcia norman update,marcia norman case,jeffrey zizz upate,true crime,true crime podcast,hidden true crime lauren matthias,lauren matthias,dr john matthias,crime stories,criminal psychology,forensic psychology,true crime recaps,true crime stories,true crime psychology

753 99

YouTube Video VVVCcDAzdG9Yei1XWjZnU3Q3WXRTZEVnLkZkNG51VTF3Q0xj

Before Nancy Guthrie, There Was Marcia Norman | A Psychological Deep Dive

Hidden True Crime 8.2K views 11 hours ago

Lauren Matthias of Hidden True Crime examines one of the most disturbing cases we’ve ever covered.

When 82-year-old Marcia Norman vanished from her home in rural Washington, friends and family immediately knew something was wrong. Marcia was a beloved grandmother, devoted wife, and active member of her community. But as investigators began searching for answers, they uncovered a trail of evidence that became more shocking with every discovery.

In this episode, we dive into newly obtained court documents, witness statements, jail calls, and investigative reports that reveal disturbing new details about the case against Jeffrey Zizz—a former pastor, Army veteran, father of five, and trusted family friend. From allegations of a secret obsession to an alleged assault plan and evidence investigators say points to premeditation, this case raises troubling questions about trust, vulnerability, and justice. Most importantly, Marcia’s family is still waiting for their day in court. Join us as we examine the evidence, the investigation, and why many following this case believe public attention matters now more than ever. If you have not yet watched our original deep dive into the Marcia Norman case, be sure to check out our full playlist linked below.

0:00- Intro
6:57- case refresh 
19:27- suspects previous conviction
27:10- new information 
1:27:31- first jail calls
1:33:51- investigation continues
1:38:26- more calls 
1:40:51- investigation continues
2:00:11- more calls
2:26:36- investigation continues
2:41:13- prosecutor controversy 
3:01:12- closing thoughts 


Marcia Norman Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLc7I2gyWtRCMNvVfk8gJjLUULQkWdME

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join 
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Sponsors: 
Get 20% off all IQBAR products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping—text HIDDEN to 64000. Message and data rates may apply.
Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at Article by visiting https://www.article.com/discount/hidden and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes. 
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

Another Grandmother Vanishes. Then the Story Gets Worse | Nancy Guthrie 2.0?
A Missing Grandmother, a Secret Obsession, and a Man Nobody Suspected

marcia norman,marcia norman murder,jeffrey zizz,jeff zizz,hidden true crime,lauren matthias,hidden true crime lauren matthias,true crime,true crime stories,true crime recaps,murder mystery,true crime psychology,real crime stories,nancy guthrie,nancy guthrie update,handyman kills woman,true crime podcast,thurston county,stories,true crime documentary,missing woman,murder investigation,jail calls,true crime story,true crime cases

Lauren Matthias of Hidden True Crime examines one of the most disturbing cases we’ve ever covered.

When 82-year-old Marcia Norman vanished from her home in rural Washington, friends and family immediately knew something was wrong. Marcia was a beloved grandmother, devoted wife, and active member of her community. But as investigators began searching for answers, they uncovered a trail of evidence that became more shocking with every discovery.

In this episode, we dive into newly obtained court documents, witness statements, jail calls, and investigative reports that reveal disturbing new details about the case against Jeffrey Zizz—a former pastor, Army veteran, father of five, and trusted family friend. From allegations of a secret obsession to an alleged assault plan and evidence investigators say points to premeditation, this case raises troubling questions about trust, vulnerability, and justice. Most importantly, Marcia’s family is still waiting for their day in court. Join us as we examine the evidence, the investigation, and why many following this case believe public attention matters now more than ever. If you have not yet watched our original deep dive into the Marcia Norman case, be sure to check out our full playlist linked below.

Marcia Norman Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLc7I2gyWtRCMNvVfk8gJjLUULQkWdME

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Sponsors:
Get 20% off all IQBAR products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping—text HIDDEN to 64000. Message and data rates may apply.
Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at Article by visiting https://www.article.com/discount/hidden and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes.
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

A Missing Grandmother, a Secret Obsession, and a Man Nobody Suspected

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2.1K 292

YouTube Video VVVCcDAzdG9Yei1XWjZnU3Q3WXRTZEVnLmVGdDZzSURaVHZ3

Another Grandmother Vanishes. Then the Story Gets Worse | Nancy Guthrie 2.0?

Hidden True Crime 36.9K views June 6, 2026 12:40 pm

Lauren Matthias and forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias react to the new documentary The Nightmare Upstairs and explore the difficult questions at the center of the case. Beyond the documentary itself, we discuss family abuse, child disclosures, parental alienation, custody battles, trauma, and why these cases can be so challenging for courts and professionals to navigate. What happens when children say they're afraid—and how do we separate truth, manipulation, and misunderstanding in some of the most emotionally charged family conflicts imaginable?

Sponsors: 
First Day Life: Get up to 57% off and a free gift with code HIDDEN at ⁠https://FirstDay.com⁠. 
Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at ⁠https://shopify.com/hiddentruecrime⁠.
Ethos Life Insurance: Protect your family with life insurance through Ethos—get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at ⁠https://ethos.com/hidden⁠. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join 
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes. 
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

The Nightmare Upstairs: When Abuse Allegations Collide with Custody Battles | Psychologist Reacts

the nightmare upstairs,the nightmare upstairs trailer,nightmare upstairs,ty and brynlee larson,ty and bryn,parental alienation,custody battle,parental alienation documentary,true crime news,true crime,true crime recaps,dr john matthias,lauren matthias,hidden true crime,custody documentary,true crime documentary,lauren matthias hidden true crime,real crime,psychology,true crime cases,true crime podcast,true crime psychology,criminal psychology

Lauren Matthias and forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias react to the new documentary The Nightmare Upstairs and explore the difficult questions at the center of the case. Beyond the documentary itself, we discuss family abuse, child disclosures, parental alienation, custody battles, trauma, and why these cases can be so challenging for courts and professionals to navigate. What happens when children say they're afraid—and how do we separate truth, manipulation, and misunderstanding in some of the most emotionally charged family conflicts imaginable?

Sponsors:
First Day Life: Get up to 57% off and a free gift with code HIDDEN at ⁠https://FirstDay.com⁠.
Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at ⁠https://shopify.com/hiddentruecrime⁠.
Ethos Life Insurance: Protect your family with life insurance through Ethos—get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at ⁠https://ethos.com/hidden⁠. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.

Become a Hidden gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join
Find exclusive episodes on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

Lauren Matthias was a television reporter for a decade. She and her husband, Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, started Hidden True Crime in 2020 with their Season, 'Beyond the Veil,' a psychological deep dive into the doomsday murders of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling.

Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime
Become a channel member and gem:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

Join for channel emojis:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBp03toXz-WZ6gSt7YtSdEg/join

We're a true crime news channel working to ensure that the public gets the most factual information on the latest crimes.
This video is a news piece in the public's interest. This video was created with the intent of educating the public.

The Nightmare Upstairs: When Abuse Allegations Collide with Custody Battles | Psychologist Reacts

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1.8K 440

YouTube Video VVVCcDAzdG9Yei1XWjZnU3Q3WXRTZEVnLllXRkhNS0VDSFVz

The Nightmare Upstairs: When Abuse Allegations Collide with Custody Battles | Psychologist Reacts

Hidden True Crime 32.1K views June 1, 2026 5:52 pm

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